Will T4T Continue Now That LHC@Home 1.0 Is Live?


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Profile Ex_Brit
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Message 4680 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 21:12:04 UTC

Well half alive maybe as they haven not got their forums up and running properly yet but the client is delivering work.

So will T4T continue now that it appears LHC@Home classic is dead and LHC@Home 1.0 is a reality.

I also notice that credits from classic have been carried over to the new project which is a brilliant move.
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Michael Karlinsky
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Message 4683 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 22:22:46 UTC

Thanks for pointing that out.

No work though :(

And the team memberships are borked ...

Michael


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Message 4684 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 22:37:45 UTC
Last modified: 2 Sep 2011, 22:50:38 UTC

http://lhcathome.web.cern.ch/LHCathome/Sixtrack/


(I'm just posting the link,not answering any questions)

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Message 4685 - Posted: 2 Sep 2011, 22:40:34 UTC - in response to Message 4684.

I'm none the wiser now, sorry. Those don't answer my question.
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Peter
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Message 4686 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 0:20:39 UTC - in response to Message 4685.
Last modified: 3 Sep 2011, 0:23:23 UTC

First of all, Ex_Brit, let's get the name straight. If you go to the site Magic linked us to the name appears to be Sixtrack, not LHC@home 1.0. Using the proper name can only help avoid confusion.

The work T4T is doing is not going to disappear. T4T might continue under another name when it goes into production phase but we crunchers will still be running much the same kind of BOINC tasks T4T issues now and we'll be running a VirtualMachine for those tasks. The partical simulation work we're doing now will continue and there may be other types of work in the future.

I have a hunch the Sixtrack project is probably going to run just the Sixtrack application which was used for tuning/aligning the LHC magnets But I also have another hunch, call it crazy if you want but here it is...

<crazy_crazy_monkey mode>

What was the biggest problem LHC@home classic had? I mean aside from the long list of pending tasks from years ago, the /'s in the forum posts, etc. The biggest problem they had was getting results from the various operating systems to verify with each other. Remember how they "coped" with the 25% verification rate by using an Initial Replication of 3 and a Quorum of 2 and the big bruhaha Dagorath started over the waist of resources caused by IR=3 with Quorum=2. He's still banished from those forums but he was right about the waste.

Now think about how the VirtualMachine idea T4T has been developing and interfacing with BOINC. Think about how the BOINC devs are embracing the VirtualMachine idea and doing what they can to incorporate it into BOINC. Why are they doing that? Because with the VM a project needs only 1 version of their science application which will run on 1 operating system inside the VM no matter which OS the host computer runs on. That eliminates the problem with results from different OS's verifying with each other. Get the picture? So I have a hunch that maybe Sixtrack project will use the CERN_VM technology developed here at T4T and run their Sixtrack application inside a VM on all of our computers, Windows, Mac and Linux. If that happens (and its just a hunch I have) then Sixtrack might even issue the CERN jobs T4T is issuing now. On the other hand, if they continue with the Sixtrack name for the site (and they might not when they go into production) it seems to me they would issue jobs only for the Sixtrack application. Who knows for sure? Not me, I'm just speculating about different courses they might take. I have no inside information.

</crazy_crazy_monkey mode>

Does that answer your question, Ex_Brit? No, it just raises more questions. Sorry for being a tease :-)

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Message 4687 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 0:34:40 UTC - in response to Message 4686.

That helps quite a bit...I think ;-)

Actually I merely called it LHC@Home 1.0 because that is how Sixtrack plants itself into Boinc, at least when one attaches to the project today.

I guess time will tell........
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Message 4688 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 4:13:54 UTC - in response to Message 4687.

Ahhh yes, now I see. LHC@home 1.0 when you attach but Sixtrack on the home page. Kind of confusing but oh well. Just glad to see something going on over there, anything.

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Message 4692 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 5:58:08 UTC - in response to Message 4685.

I'm none the wiser now, sorry. Those don't answer my question.


The Sixtrack project is being revived. Its BOINC server and database has been moved back to CERN, and the server code updated. Some WU's are being issued now and lots more will be soon. The technology is still classic BOINC with no VM's for now. This could change one day.

The T4T and Sixtrack projects share the LHC@home name and home base (CERN) and both are planned to run for the foreseeable future.

Michael Karlinsky
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Message 4695 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 13:35:55 UTC


Some WU's are being issued now and lots more will be soon.


Got some! This is great, first WUs in years, and there is a Linux application again!

Wow!

Michael
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Message 4697 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 14:02:04 UTC - in response to Message 4695.

That's good. I was beginning to think that they had in fact opened a black hole and weren't telling anyone....LOL.
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Message 4700 - Posted: 3 Sep 2011, 17:27:08 UTC

ill run cern@home 1.0 when i wont get tasks for t4t

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Message 4706 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 7:01:28 UTC

Running SixTrack here, almost glad it doesn't need Virtual Box to run it, maybe they solved the result problems from different OS's. Somehow-somewhere something pointed this link out to me so I followed it up. Took a few minutes for WU requests to download.....Crunching away now.....

And T4T's still doing fine here, seems to be behaving.
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Message 4707 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 7:10:28 UTC

I think a black hole needs a steady amount of anti-matter for an extremely dense plasma state of anti-matter to exist, and it needs matter to fuel the
annhilation process, something we are just beginning to see with the LHC and the captured anti-protons resulting from the higher energy particle collisions, the brief moment of pressure-density during the collision producing anti-protons. Not quite fusion, but we can now contain anti-protons for up to 15 minutes...be interesting to see what exotic particles could be created in collisions of anti-protons but that would take a new or modified collider.
____________
The billions of dollars of R&D
granted to these projects by
government and private sources,
1/2 a million cruncher jobs would
be good for the US. If I
got paid to be a cruncher,
I would be a rich man by now.

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Message 4712 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 11:47:12 UTC - in response to Message 4707.

Fascinating but way beyond me I'm afraid....I just crunch...;-)
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Peter
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Message 4713 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 12:10:53 UTC - in response to Message 4707.
Last modified: 4 Sep 2011, 12:11:08 UTC

I think a black hole needs a steady amount of anti-matter for an extremely dense plasma state of anti-matter to exist, and it needs matter to fuel the
annhilation process, something we are just beginning to see with the LHC and the captured anti-protons resulting from the higher energy particle collisions, the brief moment of pressure-density during the collision producing anti-protons. Not quite fusion, but we can now contain anti-protons for up to 15 minutes...be interesting to see what exotic particles could be created in collisions of anti-protons but that would take a new or modified collider.

Antiproton collisions would create pretty much the same particles proton collisions are creating in LHC now. In fact LHC would be able to collide antiprotons after just a few quite simple changes(reversing polarity of all steering magnets) and they would sure do it if it was worth the effort. But protons are way easier to obtain.
And the part about black holes makes no sense.

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Message 4714 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 12:19:16 UTC - in response to Message 4713.

I started that by mentioning a black hole - it was meant to be a joke not to start an argument.

Ages ago the media were speculating whether or not there was a risk that what Cern are doing might create one, and of course that idea was squashed immediately.
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Message 4716 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 21:34:50 UTC

Just got some work for LHC@Home 1.0. Had to resign up for the Project and when the Project selection box comes up (BOINC - Selection Box) when you find LHC@Home you need to manually insert http://lhcathomeclassic.cern.ch/sixtrack/ . The old link doesn't connect to the servers.

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Message 4717 - Posted: 4 Sep 2011, 21:37:29 UTC - in response to Message 4716.

Exactly. They very kindly carried our credits forward.
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Peter
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Message 4718 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 2:52:33 UTC

Glad the original has been revived. Credits were carried over for me, all 926 of them :). Now I'm just waiting for some work, LOL.

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Message 4719 - Posted: 5 Sep 2011, 7:06:33 UTC

I detached, attached to the new URL and got some work for my Linux box. It should take 46:47 min but probably will take less. Got all my credits.
Tullio

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Message boards : Number crunching : Will T4T Continue Now That LHC@Home 1.0 Is Live?